New Chat Time & Channel

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New Chat Time & Channel

New postby Brendan_ » Sat, 24 Sep 2011 9:07 pm

As part of ditching the DH, we're moving the chats to irc.freenode.net #Scone

As part of getting garvek able to participate, and making it easier for me (as I'm GMT +4.5), we're moving chat time up 1.5 hours.

So...
Saturday, 1730 GMT
freenode.net #Scone



Later, I plan to move chats to real-time multi-user collaborative Google Docs because IRC is more limited, harder to follow, and hasn't proven to help recruiting during dev chats, which we have to keep the Leads coordinated and making decisions together.

That is all.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby Brendan_ » Sun, 25 Sep 2011 8:58 am

Why are we leaving IRC for Dev Chats?

  • IRC has accessibility problems for more key people than just me.
  • IRC creates redundant work if anything is to be documented, versus something like Google Docs or Etherpad.
  • Organizing comments by time-stamp as IRC does works counter to organizing by subject so one isn't forced to scan the entire log for information that matters to you
  • Google Docs is accessible to all of us, even with web filters here and at schools
  • Dev Chats are not primarily FOR recruiting, which is the only remaining benefit IRC can claim over Google Docs
  • IRC has not proven very useful for recruiting anyway (there was rbraley, but he got stolen)
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby freegamer » Sun, 25 Sep 2011 11:08 pm

Why #Scone and not #godhead or do you plan on changing project name again? :P
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby Brendan_ » Mon, 26 Sep 2011 3:26 am

I already had #Scone registered, I don't even want to be enough of an IRC wizard to remember how to fully chanserv up a new channel, and I plan to ditch IRC soon. Its rumored promise as some sort of old school social network platform for FOSS game devs has not panned out. The only thing that's going to work for our recruitment is going out where potential devs are, "proselytizing" for Godhead.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby TheAncientGoat » Mon, 26 Sep 2011 3:08 pm

That's a rather odd description of IRC :P

It's not a magical "whoo, free contributors" tool, there exists no such thing. IRC is just well known, and sort of standard for FOSS projects, to the extent that it gets blocked. Abandoning IRC altogether means that you essentially lose the general experience that people have with IRC, and force them to adapt to a new platform.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby 1Samildanach » Tue, 27 Sep 2011 8:42 am

It (IRC channels in general) is also one of the places people commonly go for help/support when software doesn't work.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby Brendan_ » Tue, 27 Sep 2011 3:16 pm

Why would we want people going to IRC when we have forums? Most of the time I search for answers to software support issues, I get forum posts. People go to Google for answers to everything. If we direct them to a particular chat resource, then they might use it. Absent those directions from us, what IRC server would they go to and start trying #godhead at (yes, it's the obvious room name choice; I just didn't want to bother with looking up IRC ChanServ settings)? Going to freenode would be a random shot; Googling is a sure shot.

If people are used to some platform and some experience, it's human nature to resist change, even if the new can be proven superior to the old. Admittedly, the thing that counts is whether people do change, because if they don't then it makes no difference if it will build you an island, then transforms into a jet and flies you there if people insist on what they already know.

That's not to say the alternatives don't have problems, or that asking people to adapt isn't asking them to bear some new burden learning it. But we already produce vast amounts of text in IRC and here too without making it really count for anything. Once conclusions can be drawn, we don't really need to keep every word that was said. Doing a chat in a document and then staying in that document chopping down the cruft is a great way to summarize both as a way to help ongoing conversations and to get people who can't attend on the same page with our decisions ...just be reading the same page after we're done with it.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby TheAncientGoat » Tue, 27 Sep 2011 5:42 pm

People go to irc instead of forums because you don't need to sign up for another account, and you get realtime responses. Without a large userbase, with a large set of people reporting bugs, the way people phrase questions doesn't always match the way problems are reported/solved, so human interaction is quicker and more efficient than search.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby 1Samildanach » Wed, 28 Sep 2011 7:47 am

Its not an either-or situation, BTW. No doubt there are far better options for dev meetings than IRC, and I don't think anyone has said they shouldn't be tried out. But its definitely worth maintaining legacy support (especially as the community grows), since doing so requires no/little resources.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby del_diablo » Wed, 28 Sep 2011 2:39 pm

TheAncientGoat wrote:People go to irc instead of forums because you don't need to sign up for another account, and you get realtime responses.


Pretty much this. Anything that requires a account is only nagging for it.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby Brendan_ » Thu, 29 Sep 2011 10:23 am

I've done a little more setting up of #Godhead, but I'm really wanting our discussions to move toward something lending itself to more integration, better documentation of any idea-gold mined in the process. Copying and pasting from chat logs is something that just doesn't happen, and which IRC totally does not lend itself to like a real-time collaborative document does-- you're already editing a document.

It can still exist; what am I gonna do, place auto-kickbans on all your nicks?!? But I see IRC much the same as Windows remaining the dominant OS simply because it's familiar, does just enough to complete the job, and most of all people already know how to use it.
We should be looking for better ways of providing the functionality you mention, like quick and hassle-free interaction, which is something that a publicly editable GDoc and more convenient user-authentication like OpenID can solve.
I realize we're not so much a "tool company" than a game and idea team, so the platform isn't half so important as the people and interactions. But we should be looking for ways to improve our workflow.
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Re: New Chat Time & Channel

New postby 1Samildanach » Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:46 am

Brendan_ wrote:But we should be looking for ways to improve our workflow.

That's what you're talking about... but the rest of us are talking about less core stuff (user support, etc.). As I said earlier, I'm certain there are better solutions available for development meetings, and the best should be used.

But that won't completely supersede IRC. Goal oriented dev stuff and general chatter are different things, with both having their place and different criteria for their software choices.
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